Irresistible Force is a site dedicated to Warhammer Fantasy , the table top fantasy wargame made by Games Workshop. We publish an e-zine, organise tournaments, and run the Australiasian Warhammer Fantasy Rankings.
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Terror - Is the rule too strong?
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Location: Blogs Warhammer Fantasy Blog |
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| Posted by: Andrew Galea |
Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:02:18 GMT |
I had a Warhammer Fantasy battle on the weekend against an opponent I play semi-regularly. He is exclusively a Wood Elf player but I try not to hold that against him. Anyway he had a new version of his Wood Elves that included a Forest Dragon. This was another good opportunity for me to test my new Orcs & Goblins list out so I took to the challenge with gusto.
Everything was going very well until turn 3 when suddenly at the end of his turn I found his dragon with 6 inches of my generals unit (25 Orc Boyz) and my BSBs unit (25 Orc Boyz). So at the start of my next turn I had a few terror tests to take. Both would normally be on 9 however he also had an annoying item that reduced my leadership by 1 for all models within 6 inches…how convenient. So it was two terror tests on 8…I proceeded to fail both. Just for the record the item made little difference as I rolled a 10 and 11 for the tests. So in one fell swoop both my main units and characters were fleeing and consequently run down/destroyed in the proceeding turn. Totally change the face of the game and without going into details I lost heavily.
Now this incident resurfaced thoughts I have had for some time regarding terror in the game of Warhammer Fantasy. And basically my thoughts are "is terror too strong"? I know there are many dice rolls throughout a game of Warhammer, however none are normally as decisive as terror tests. A single roll that often determines whether you win or lose the game. A bit dramatic? I am not sure. I understand that the story above regarding my greenskins is out of the ordinary, failing two tests on 8 but still it is not that unbelievable. And my question is should a single model have the potential to do this in the game? With the advent of 7th edition and the crossfire rule, the potential damage from a failed terror test is even greater.
I have also considered what would be a good alternative rule. I mean we cannot simply scrap the terror rule altogether and there is a place for creatures/beings that are more scary than a fear causer but how should that difference be represented in game play? I have thought something along the lines that a unit that fails terror cannot move in this turn or the next. That is a fairly significant penalty without being as decisive as fleeing directly away. However this is just a thought in my head and has not been play tested.
The other 2 trains of thought are either that Fear is powerful enough and there is no need for a terror rule OR that terror is fine as it is. What do you think?
Andrew Galea |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Ken Ferris on
Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:53:02 GMT |
| Andrew - Terror is horribly overrated. But by its nature, its a wonder/zero rule. Sometimes, yes it completely destroys you, but the VAST majority of the time (and I know from playing terror causes alot as you know!) it does nothing. Its expensive, generally priced at 50points for the ability, and with so many armies able to make themself immune to psychology, and the it working on the rest somewhere between 8-40ish% of the time depending on how you can catch the units out - I wouldn't say its that effective.<br><br>Failing a terror test is akin to losing a combat by muso (thats actually worse!), or a spell making you take a panic test that you let through, and then failing. You feel like you made a mistake or were robbed. But there was a inherint risk you decided to take, as most generals have to through a game. And this time you lost. If you past, then away you go and your probably in a better position.<br>The -1Ld WE item is a nasty little bonus - I'm shocked it isn't taken more often. It does make Terror alot better - but with so many immune to psych armies? Its alot of eggs in a basket you can't swing to often.<br><br>Suck it up Andrew! - not everyone suffers the terror regeime as much as you. And while most people remember that crushing loss to a terror causer, not many remember when they pass it and destroy there opponent who took the risk of causing tests and lucked out.<br>Funny that...<br>Terror is fine the way it is mate. Fight fire with some, and get your own! Join the Terror Bandwagon, so to speak, a Wyrvern, Giant etc are just as effective for the O&G army as they are for others. |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Jeff Carroll on
Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:25:43 GMT |
| I think Ken has hit the nail on the head, I totally agree. Just suck it up andrew and stop crying : ) |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Moly on
Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:34:00 GMT |
| I also agree with Ken. Perhaps the stink factor on terror for you, Guns, is not that both units ran off, but rather that they were run down. Which of course swung the course of the game. Two Ld rolls on an 8 are in your favour - just not that time. :-) |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Tim Donnelly on
Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:08:00 GMT |
| Yep, terror can seem overpowered, but I think it is still a crucial part of the game. I mean, the things that cause it are generally pretty scary and could potentially make you fill your pants if they were real.<br><br>On the flipside, there are many ways around it. If it continually becomes a problem you could always invest in about 8 goblin bolt throwers and mess him right up.<br><br>Being a skaven player, the nemesis for me is flying terror causers. So I know how you feel.<br><br>Sometimes the dice can be bastards too. <br><br>Oh well, its a game. |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By matt on
Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:09:14 GMT |
| I also play wood elves and have alot of fear/ rterror units, i normaly forget all about then until its too late and when i do remember the dwarfs just pass it anyway. |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Ed on
Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:12:59 GMT |
| After playing orcs and goblins for 4 years now I have found flying terror causers to be a real problem for the army to deal with. I'm not sure that the terror rule is too strong or not, but certainly armies with leadership 8+ across the board combined with immune to psychology have an advantage when it comes to facing fear and terror causers.<br><br>Skaven have jezzails and other weapons useful for dealing with flying terror causers. Skaven also have generally higher leadership than greenskins; usually 10 around the general and a higher average around the battlefield, so while I'd say that skaven also suffer from flying terror causers orcs and goblins are particularly vulnerable. <br><br>I'm not sure what the solution is for greenskins. Particularly when there are no items that give a reroll to psychology tests in the army book. Max leadership is 9 on your general. My feeling is that using the horn of urgok to boost leadership may be one way to go when you are running orc infantry. Or swap to use savage orcs, snotlings and giants to minimize effects, effectively building an army that does not test. Either that or you go a large number of night goblin units all with fanatics and include a lot of goblin spear chukkas.<br><br>Anyway, good luck with the greenskins and their psychology/animosity. I've having a break from the orcs and playing wood elves now. Animosity and failed psychology tests lost me too many games and I'm not sure I can do it anymore! |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Matt on
Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:56:43 GMT |
| Hi Guns,<br><br>Being on the receiving end of many terror causes, it's my opinon that terror is not over powered. When a player positions their terror causer to cause maximum terror tests it can become a game winner - as in your example or it can just be another roll of the dice.<br><br>It's all part of the game. To be effective against it, use units items to minimize it's effect - immune to psych and cause fear themselves (fear reduces terror to fear) are two useful ways.<br><br>I note you took Ken's advice and brought along a Wvyern and Giant to DC08.<br><br>Cheers |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Matt on
Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:47:50 GMT |
| Hi Guns,<br><br>Being on the receiving end of many terror causes, it's my opinon that terror is not over powered. When a player positions their terror causer to cause maximum terror tests it can become a game winner - as in your example or it can just be another roll of the dice.<br><br>It's all part of the game. To be effective against it, use units items to minimize it's effect - immune to psych and cause fear themselves (fear reduces terror to fear) are two useful ways.<br><br>I note you took Ken's advice and brought along a Wvyern and Giant to DC08.<br><br>Cheers |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By Tyrone on
Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:59:18 GMT |
| I agree with most of the above comments, Terror is not overpowered and more often than not is negated by immune to psychology etc. Also, its a one shot weapon. Once a unit passes a terror test it never takes one again. It sucks when it swings a game and you get crushed cos a dragon landed on your flank but hey, thats what a dragon does.<br><br>I use chaos and find my terror causing Daemons and dragons either a) get cannon blasted in the first two turns or b) land next to a unit that passes its test and is therefore immune to terror for the rest of the game (which is something overlooked in all the above comments). |
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Re: Terror - Is the rule too strong? |
By SajT on
Wed, 07 May 2008 23:41:23 GMT |
| Terror may not be overpowered, I agree with that aswell. Having played Daemons for quite some time now I can't say that I would take it if it were to come as an option for my lords. The ability is just too situational, many armies will ignore it outright and even against armies like my goblin wolfriders (where it would be ideal) it can still fall flat.<br><br>I don't like is how it can plainly end games outright, often resulting in somewhat unfair victories (some players don't take thoose losses too well either). I like the suggestion of it rendering units unable to move, however if so the cost for the ability would have to be reduced.<br><br>With the Daemon Prince I sometimes did play on the ability, trying to combine it with panic aswell when possible. But now that Princes have lost their former glory I doubt that I'll give it much attention in my tactics. <br><br>What I do like about terror though is how my GUO I can actually autobreak fear causing units with the fear rule, such as minos. "You ain't half as bad as I am, now run along children!". |
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